Imagine a former military personnel turned cybersecurity expert dedicated to fight against human trafficking, Cody Lummus is exactly that. Our conversation with him takes us on an inspiring journey from a Jeep accident to his redefining encounter with a boot camp instructor. Cody's story is a testament to embracing change, having the courage to transition careers, and the power of lifelong learning.
Cody shares his experiences attending cybersecurity boot camps, highlighting the immense value of courses that focus on building the industry foundations, instead of just teaching the test. He emphasizes the importance of hands-on experience and the role of committed instructors in molding a student's future. Hear him talk candidly about taking ownership of your future, navigating ageism in the job search, and the difference an inspiring mentor can make in your life.
Finally, Cody offers invaluable advice for those venturing into the field of cybersecurity. He stresses the need for continuous learning, a strong foundation, and having a passion for your work. Cody's journey is a shining example of how age and lack of experience need not be roadblocks in the path to success, if you're armed with the right mindset. So, join us as we explore the crucial lessons Cody's journey from the military to cybersecurity has to teach us all.
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Imagine a former military personnel turned cybersecurity expert dedicated to fight against human trafficking, Cody Lummus is exactly that. Our conversation with him takes us on an inspiring journey from a Jeep accident to his redefining encounter with a boot camp instructor. Cody's story is a testament to embracing change, having the courage to transition careers, and the power of lifelong learning.
Cody shares his experiences attending cybersecurity boot camps, highlighting the immense value of courses that focus on building the industry foundations, instead of just teaching the test. He emphasizes the importance of hands-on experience and the role of committed instructors in molding a student's future. Hear him talk candidly about taking ownership of your future, navigating ageism in the job search, and the difference an inspiring mentor can make in your life.
Finally, Cody offers invaluable advice for those venturing into the field of cybersecurity. He stresses the need for continuous learning, a strong foundation, and having a passion for your work. Cody's journey is a shining example of how age and lack of experience need not be roadblocks in the path to success, if you're armed with the right mindset. So, join us as we explore the crucial lessons Cody's journey from the military to cybersecurity has to teach us all.
Merch: https://cyberwarriorstudios.com/store
Youtube: https://youtube.cyberwarriorstudios.com
Twitch: https://twitch.tv/CyberWarriorStudios
Twitter: @CyberWarriorSt1
Discord: https://discord.gg/eCSRzM6mJf
And it's me. That's right. It is the Cyber Warrior, this is Cyber Warrior Studios and I know you're all here for another amazing episode Security Happy Hour. Now, before we get started, understand, this show is free-flowing. It is free-forming. There are Super Chests in the bottom If you want to donate to the cause. I'm just saying, I'm just throwing that out there Now. Otherwise, look, I love you all and I promise we're going to get back with our amazing guests here in a second. You just got to hang with me. It's like 10 seconds, all right, and we're back, and that's right. It is me, it is the Cyber Warrior with me, I have Cody and yes, it is Freya's Day. Happy Freya's Day, everybody. And once again, we're here. We are here in hold on. We got to get the official sound. There it is. The official sound is Security Happy Hour, and we're ready to go. Cody, I'm going to go get the official sound. I'm going to go get the official sound. The official sound is Security Happy Hour, and we're ready to go.
Speaker 1:Cody, as we're getting started, please give these folks a rundown about who you are and what we're going to get into.
Speaker 2:Well, with the opening sound, I just have to say I already need to pee, but we're going to hold that. But anyway, my name is Cody. Cody Loanis. I'm I don't know. You all can see me on my Lincoln and everything else but I'm 47 years old and going through a cybersecurity boot camp Now.
Speaker 2:I started out in the military in 1994 out of the out of high school and did 22 years, 10 months and eight days. Then I was 11 Charlie and jumped out of planes and blew stuff up at six deployments as an infantryman and then went into supply of all goddamn things and started learning logistics and went to the National Guard, got a full-time National Guard gig, deployed once to Afghanistan and would rather have walking over broken glass than go on that deployment. But being a being an infantry dude that goes into the supply realm and into carpet land, don't like it, but but anyway, come out of that, retired in 2016 and basically lived off the grid, built my own log cabin with my own hands. Didn't had no heavy, heavy equipment at all, just a chainsaw and a couple of ladders to build my own log cabin. Generated power, solar power. I had a fuck ton of chickens. You got to have ducks and some other shit, but anyway, the that turned up, that's a full-time job in itself.
Speaker 2:And one night my wife she rolled her, rolled her Jeep and I had been thinking about wanting to go to Weldon School where to learn in some sort of trade. And she rolled her Jeep, was trapped upside down for about 30 minutes and couldn't get out. Her seatbelt was locked. She couldn't get out of her seatbelt and out in the darkness. It was about 2.30 in the morning and from I just heard a real faint help, help and I was like what the hell? I used my flashlight and seen her. I was like, oh well, that's upside down. I didn't get her out of that and within probably three hours I had applied to a with a VA through a local welding school up here and I said I'm going to build you a world cage. That was my introduction to welding and fabrication. So did that and went through that school that was 10 weeks upon at a blast. No one loved welding and fabrication. Right out of that started building handrails and structural steel components for apartment buildings. And what have you? That sucks, it's dirty, that sucks, that's fucking dirty.
Speaker 1:It's dirty, it's nasty.
Speaker 2:It's hot, you're blowing out black boogers from all the frigid welding gases and everything else and decided to move into an indoor application where I was hoping to work on hot rods and maybe do some other stuff. I turned a horse trailer into a mobile bar. That was my first game. Can you do that for me? No, no, I do know a guy that can, though, I know a guy but yeah, but absolutely, it's welding and fabrication sucks. It's hard work, but, like I said at that time, I was 40, I was 2018.
Speaker 2:So what's that been? I can't even do the math in my head right now, but anyway, I was in my early 40s and did that and blew my back out somewhere I don't know A few years into it and now I can't lean over, I can't lift up the heavy stuff, I can't go to the boot and I can't be on the ground, roll around in the dirt. So decided I need to change avenues. I became a CNC programmer, learned G code and M code, started programming, freaking CNC mills and lathe's, learned that all by myself, didn't have any boot camp or nobody to teach me, just flashcards that are made on my own and the will of fucking YouTube. But yeah, overall it went to start going well. But again, I'm getting old. I can't bend over and lean into those machines and standing up all day at those things just killing me. Plus, the money ain't that good. So I need something else to go into.
Speaker 2:Cyber security has been drawing my attention since I was a not even a kid but the digital realm I've been looking at since I was a kid. I love computers and I love doing stuff digibles. I played video games. I built my own computer back in the early 2000s. I had a lot of fun doing that. Anyway, short story long, decided to go into cyber security because it'll let me stay in the light. I had an issue on one of my deployments where I intervened in a rape, sexual assault that turned out to be human trafficking and I can't go kick doors anymore. But if this will, let me stay in the fight and maybe go catch those people. Cyber security, let me help that and by God, if I can stay in the fight doing that, I'm going to.
Speaker 1:And that's the biggest thing, because when you look at it and when we look at, I'm not even going to say a lot because I don't see a lot of people talk about it, but there's quite a few people that talk about the reasonings they get into this field and, whether it's human trafficking or whatever the case may be, something to help others and help everyone. One of the biggest reasons that I got in the military was to help people and I didn't get that opportunity. I deployed, I did other things, but I never felt like I was making a difference. Even now I'm making a difference, but for companies. I still feel like I'm missing that human element of helping people, which is why I do this show, which is why I do the content that I do is because it is my way of helping people.
Speaker 1:But, to your point, if you can do that, if you can get in with these organizations, if you can get into cybersecurity, digital forensics, social engineering, all these other avenues that are out there, it will do nothing but help your cause. So I think that the first topic of discussion needs to be that boot camp and what it's teaching you. So you're in a 20-week boot camp, correct? Yes, sir, and with that 20-week boot camp, how do you feel that instruction has helped you kind of learn the ins and outs of what it is we do in cybersecurity?
Speaker 2:Well, we're honestly, we're just now getting into the pentest portion of this boot camp. This is a 20-week boot camp. This last four weeks is pentest plus.
Speaker 2:And in fact I got my pentest. I scheduled my pentest plus exam for the 26th of this month. I've already passed my security plus, got that first time go last month. The last four weeks of it was all security plus. But prior to that, this course that I've gone through laid the groundwork that I don't think a whole lot of these boot camps do At least I don't hear about them doing it. We went through server plus, we went through Linux plus cloud and we went through network. I mean we had 20 weeks of network where we pulled up GNS3 and we made our own networks and made them all work. We made our own firewalls, configured everything and we got a congratulations, by the way, from SpaceTacos.
Speaker 1:I know who that is, but I'm not going to put her name out there Now either way, spacetaco sound pretty yummy.
Speaker 2:I don't know what's in them B Fort or Alien Matter. Anyway, the-.
Speaker 1:But I love the fact that you talk about going through the foundations, because that's the biggest part. Buddy, do it. That is something a lot of boot camps miss, especially when you're looking at somebody's one week certification boot camps. Yeah, so the fact that yours is 20 weeks, so I don't know who you're going through right now. If you want to say it, you can say it. You don't have to.
Speaker 1:I know I got a good friend, I got one of my sisters, one of my warriors, going through the Google Cybersecurity Boot Camp, and so she keeps me up to date on everything she's learning and everything she's going through, and so with that, I know they are teaching foundations to an extent not fully in depth, probably, that could be taught, but enough that you'll understand ports, enough that you'll understand some of the basic concepts and constructs. So do you feel that in your boot camp right now, they have taught you enough about the basics? Now, you, as someone who grew up in the digital realm while me and you were about that I mean, you're older than me, let's not lie, but you grew up. So you grew up, you were in the digital realm, you built computers, you know computers, you kind of came up in that fast same as myself. Would you feel that you're teaching enough in that basic construct for others to take the same boot camp?
Speaker 2:The boot camp that I'm in right now. Yes, it's in the 20 weeks that I'm going through. It's only four hours a day, it's a half time schedule and they have a full time schedule. That's only 10 weeks, but you're there eight hours going through course, sitting there in front of a computer and doing labs. The course I'm going through is through Divergence Academy and it's a certified professional penetration tester course, cppt. These guys are, in my opinion, they're killing it. I've seen and chat with other people that are going through different courses. They're not getting nearly the same kind of instruction or hands-on experience that we're getting. While going through Linux we did maybe a week, if that of it was within the first week. We pulled up our own VMs. We built our own virtual machines on either VMware or whatever. The Cisco one is virtual box.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oracle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we built our own Linux machines. We were taught it's like all right, log in, All right, SSH back into your computer. You don't make a screen. This is how you do it. This is how you do screens. This is how you do this. This is how you do that.
Speaker 1:Would you say that boot camp name once again? Is that a third in chat?
Speaker 2:Divergence Academy.
Speaker 1:A-C-A-D-E-M-Y. Okay, cool, yeah, because Space Talkers was asking, so I wanted to throw that in there that way, so you could look it up too.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely yeah, these guys, they're instructors. Like I said, I don't have much. This is the first boot camp I've been through, so I well I guess the second one First one was a lot of yelling and spitting on my face, but this one was these guys seemed to know their stuff. From what people I've talked to that have gone through other boot camps, they're not getting nearly the amount of education or the hands-on education. Yeah, like I said, we had an entire two weeks of networking. That was nothing but GNS3 and building and maintaining a network.
Speaker 1:I love that you said GNS3, because that is one of the things. When I was going through one of my schools I can't remember which one it was we talked a lot about that and I had talked to some other people and they had literally used GNS3, because of the way it operates, to build a legit network from an office to their home.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I was like, hold up, you can do that. I know like, all right, you can do all this. You just got to have the images and this at the third, and so, from a networking construct, it is probably one of the best applications out there. However, comma, you have to pay for the iOS or the OS that you're using to be able to do those things.
Speaker 2:You do.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:I do While I'm in this course. It's free and due to this course, the way it's designed, they're not here to get you as your certificate and teach the test. They don't care about tests. What they care about is real world experience and getting you into the industry and getting you a job. We have this thing that's just come out this year called CRW. It's the career readiness workshop. So while you're going through these courses, you also have a few hours a week, maybe once a week, where they teach you how to write a resume, where they teach you how to sell yourself and how to take your military experience and translate it into a cyber field.
Speaker 1:And that is absolutely amazing because and I'm going to put this question up from Jenny but essentially bootcamps have a huge issue right now. Right, Because you have a lot out there that are for certification, security plus bootcamp, CCNA bootcamps, CEH bootcamps and things like that. Now, I have a different bootcamp experience than a lot of other people, because the ones I went through and the instructor I had taught me a lot, but again, it came down to the instructor, not the actual class itself. So we'll discuss that, but I want your take on this, Cody. Let me ask why do bootcamps get a bad reputation and what are some red flags to look out for?
Speaker 2:Well, ginny, I can honestly tell you why some do and why some don't, because this is the only one I've been through. But I can tell you that some I would think, from some of the chats I've been in and looking at other people going through different boot camps, that it is geared towards test taking and they don't build the foundations that you need to get into this industry. They don't build I mean how many, how many frigging security plus boot camps have you ever heard of or gone through or seen that teach you how to build a patch cable? I went through that, yeah, I mean, who does that? I learned that in the Air Force.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, you have to have still hate it, but I learned it.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of these courses that are selling security plus certifications or boot camps or pin test boot camps, that's all that it is and if you don't have a background that directly feeds that skill set, it's going to be super hard to get anywhere, super hard to pass.
Speaker 1:And so, for me, one of the biggest things is this and you said it, and this is where I'm going to provide a counterpoint based on research so many boot camps yes, they teach the test. That's how they're going to teach. Their goal is to get you to pass. So, whether that's them going out and buying test dumps and saying, hey, study this and you'll know what you're doing, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da da, whatever the case may be, their goal is to increase their pass rate as much as possible. Right? So when you're in certification boot camps, it's very hard to get the knowledge that you're going to need to actually do the job. My only counterpoint to that is through Infosec Institute and, more specifically, ketron Evans.
Speaker 1:That man taught me so much because, yes, probably initially the class or and or, like the material is is meant to just get you to pass the test, but you get the right instructors, they'll teach you the job. And this man taught me everything I thought I went into the class I had been breaking into my own wireless network using Kali Linux and backtrack and everything else and doing things for years. I get in this. This man taught me things I didn't even know, and it had nothing to do with the test. It was legitimately. This is how you're going to do your job. This is what's important. Yeah, go ahead, go do this. I'll teach you what you know we're supposed to teach you in a curriculum, but I'm also going to teach you the real way to do it. I'm also going to teach you the things that they're not going to teach you for a certification, because the certifications are meant for compliance versus actually how things are done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. It's going back a few episodes with the GRC thing and the compliance checklists and it's a check a box. Do you have this, yes or no? It's like, did you, did you train this, yes or no? And you can check a box and move on. These guys. I have reached out to the dudes at nine o'clock on a Sunday, you know, through our chat channels and asked him and had to come into Jesus meeting with myself and be like, oh, I got to talk to somebody that's in the know, so I talk to my instructors. They've pulled me up at nine o'clock at night on a Sunday and talk to me. And shit, I'm on the freaking Pacific coast man and I'm talking to people on the East coast and they're still pulling me up. I probably really interrupted the Diablo, but they take the time to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And and that to me, like I said, the instructors. I have not had an issue with any of these instructors, so I can't blame my failure on any of the instructors.
Speaker 1:It's my own failure because these dudes are here for us and, man, it sounds like I'm paid by this guy, but but anyway yeah, but but you said a lot because at the same time, even when I went through InfoSec Institute and they're in their trainings and things like that, those instructors were the same way. Hechron, evans and I did a CCNA bootcamp too. That one I just kind of like took what a great assault because I had already done CCNA so it was easy for me. But like he's run, evans was like hey, I'm going to be here till like nine, 10 o'clock tonight and you're staying at a hotel, you're there for the class, you're going into a hotel training atmosphere. So it's like I can be here if you need me.
Speaker 1:If no one shows up by like I don't know, an hour or two after we're done, I'm out and so. But he was still available and so it was one of those things. Like I'll make myself available If you tell me you're going to need someone tonight. Like if you, if no one shows up, or if no one tells me they're going to need to talk, then yeah, I'm going to leave and go about my business for the night, because I'm here training all day. I don't want to be here 24 hours a day. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So like he was one of those people that I still, to this day, reach out on, reach out to on LinkedIn. I still talk to this. He has been a great mentor for me and has done amazing things and takes care of his students. He is how I got my InfoSack Hall of Fame Award. He nominated me because of the way things happened and the fact that he's there and he will always be available. So it's not always the school. Sometimes, many times, it's the instructor, absolutely. Some of these instructors get paid and are like all right, I'm out, see you later. Others actually care.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can have a Michelle Pfeiffer thing. You know what the fuck was that movie? Probably Beautiful Minds or whatever. But yeah, you can have that Michelle Pfeiffer moment with that shitty school that nobody gives, gives a damn about the students. You've got that one instructor that really cares and that is what is going to drive your students. It's you had the courseware or whatever the freaking school puts out might be good, but that one instructor is the one you're going to remember and the one that's going to inspire you. You know what my big thing might have? A big saying in my head all the time that from Hannibal it's you either find a way or you make one.
Speaker 1:And I love that.
Speaker 2:And that's where I'm at. Man, I'm like, I'm like I'm stuck right now in this, in this, in this blue collar. It's all I've ever done is blue collar. I know how to forklift. I don't have to drive a forklift, I can drive a front end loader. I did construction, I laid asphalt, I've built, I've been rolling around on the dirt as a welder, the fabricator. Blue collar, blue collar, blue collar. But you know something it's time for a change and I'm going to either find a way to change or I'm going to make a way to change. Ain't nobody going to stop me?
Speaker 1:And that's the biggest thing. So in spacegozet, I was going to say it, but she said it. So it's dangerous minds. I knew exactly the movie we were talking about and you're right.
Speaker 1:It comes down to the instructor and, at the same time, everything in our lives is about us. You have to take ownership of it. If you want it, you got to go for it. This feeds into all the other content. I do so for anybody out there that does not watch my daily videos or anything else.
Speaker 1:Understand this regardless of what the premise is, the reality of it is take ownership of your, of your life. Take ownership of where you want to go with, because that's going to be the biggest thing. If you don't take ownership, if you make excuses, if you say, oh, I can't do it because of this, or I can't do it because of that, or I can't do it because of this, no, you can't do it because of you because you want excuses, you want to put blame on somebody else, when the reality of it is you don't want to go for it, you're not putting your best foot forward, you're not trying to make the effort. So with that and that'll lead me into my next point, because we talk about the fact that you're in your mid to late 40s.
Speaker 1:How do you think that has impacted you being in this boot camp right now?
Speaker 2:I think it's improved everything. I think the impact that I've made some mistakes, man, I know how to study now I know, I know that. Man, I've been through so many tests, I've been through so many field problems, I've been through so many different things. I have the experience. I've been around the block. I've kicked in, I've been kicking the nuts on many times and from making mistakes I know I don't like the pain of getting kicked in the nuts. So I'm a hard, oh, buddy, oh, so I'm not going to do that shit, no more. And going into this goddamn boot camp, it's not hard just to do the basics and with it within life, it's not hard to do the basics. You already know how to breathe. You know you need food. Well, there's two things scratch off your list, let's work on the rest. And I don't know it's uh.
Speaker 1:Do you think your age is going to hold you back from getting a job, or do you think it's you?
Speaker 2:I think it's, uh, I think it might be a combination of both. I think it's my mental capacity or not my mental capacity. It's my mental uh. I guess, uh, I don't know what I'm trying to look at here. It's my own vision of being old, of being older and me holding myself back because of that. Um, I don't think it's. Uh, my age is that people are going to look at kind of resume and be like, oh, this dude's 47 years old. We can't hire him. You know it's like well, what I look at is the ROI If you're going to hire a 20 year old or a 27 year old that hasn't been kicked in the nuts a hundred thousand times, and then, or you're going to hire the 47 year old that knows he's got to go into work and he's got to do this and that and the other and has a willingness to do it 27 years old. I'm sorry, anybody out there is 27 years old.
Speaker 1:You don't know what you want to be.
Speaker 2:But I'll tell you what buddy it? Uh, I have the drive, I have the hunger and I have a willingness to learn. I'm still capable of learning. I taught myself two years ago how to program a CNC machine with zero help and I was running both programs 24 hours a day. I set that stuff up on night and eventually it was just like well, it's ready to go. I'm going to put it for this many numbers and I'm going to go home and let it run with nobody watching it. Normal freaking businesses don't do that for six months at least six months after they put a new process in. I was doing it within two.
Speaker 1:So if you're gonna tell me a, 47 year old doesn't have.
Speaker 2:You're gonna tell me a 47 year old doesn't have the capacity to learn and the capacity to do that. I'll tell you what. I got a $35,000 contract that I fulfilled that says I can.
Speaker 1:And I love the fact that you said that because here was an argument I had with the Department of Energy and with the boss that was hiring full-time employees versus contract. So me, I had been in the field of IT and networking and things like that for quite a few years, had the experience, I knew what I was doing. I could fix any computer. I was in the military, I had all this. He came at me and he said oh, you need a 367 GPA. I said, all right, bet. I said so you're gonna pull some jackass out of college that doesn't know your systems, doesn't know your operating systems, doesn't know what you're doing here internally and hire him versus someone like I don't know myself, that has a degree and I don't care what the GPA is. I've been working here for over a year and I know more about your systems and how to fix your computers than anybody else.
Speaker 1:And his response to me was get a CCIE and I'll hire you for six figures a year. Homie, I don't need to get a CCIE. I have less than that now and I make more than that now. So let's really figure out what the problem is. And the problem is certain regulations within the government and Department of Energy and all these other places that are like, oh, you need this to get hired. No, bitch, no, I don't. I'd rather hire someone without a degree and with the hunger to learn and the ability to learn. And now I'm in a position to do so. Now I'm finally in a position as of I have the ability. Once we get thoughts open and we got the clients coming in, I got the ability to hire now. So guess what you better believe? You show me you're hungry. You show me that you're willing to do the work, you're willing to put in the effort. I will hire anybody willing to do that over some college kid that just graduated oh, is that college kid if he didn't put in the effort to do a YouTube channel or a blog post or make his name no one on LinkedIn?
Speaker 1:I don't care about you. I really don't give a damn. If I don't know you. I don't care. I care about the people that I see every single day that are making that effort to let me know who they are, and everybody in my community is the same way and I have pushed you. Look at anybody in my YouTube chat right now, and I got Angie on Twitch also. I got everybody else that is sitting there and they're here, they're showing up, and I see them every day on LinkedIn. I see you Cody, I see Andrea, I see Space Tacos and I know who that really is. Avant.
Speaker 2:I don't know who you are but let's run with it. I probably do I got a man Space Tacos. You gotta be in me, man.
Speaker 1:We gotta connect I got people here that are putting in the effort, that are putting in the work. The Land Shark, I'm just seeing you, homie. Don't go there with me, homie, you are already making good money too, so fuck you. So, oh, patrick, all right. So I see these people, I know these people. So when I go to hire someone, when I'm going to look for a job, I'm gonna look for the people that have interacted. I'm gonna look for the people that have been making a name. I'm gonna look for the people that have been putting in the effort to say I fucking belong here, I belong, I've earned it. Not that people are like. I graduated college. Please hire me, I don't care about you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:College didn't teach you shit, because the work industry and the work field and cybersecurity is fucking hard.
Speaker 2:What college gave you was baseline zero. That is exactly what college gave you. You paid to get to baseline zero to get a degree in something, and high school is baseline 0.75.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So nowadays everybody's asking for a freaking college degree. Does that college degree actually make you more hireable? No, that was an underwater basket weaving in the blind man. Well shit, we got a degree, so let's hire. No, I will hire the high school graduate in a heartbeat If he shows the heart, has the attitude and wants to learn, 800 times more than I will hire that freaking high school or that college graduate that has a degree and is entitled.
Speaker 1:I used to drive Uber, right, and I had college students all the time ask me so if I wanted to get into cybersecurity, what would it take? Do you have a blog? Do you have a YouTube channel? Are you available on LinkedIn? Do I know you're posting? Are you commenting? Are you being like Andrea, who shares every job offer out there Like, look, homies, go choose this.
Speaker 2:Go find it.
Speaker 1:Are you doing these things? No, then I don't know who you are, so why would I hire you? I had someone call me a gatekeeper because I told them, if I don't know you, if I can't Google your name or Google a handle or something like that, and figure out who the hell you are, then why would I hire you? You're not proving anything to me. We are in an age where anonymity needs to go out the damn window, because the government knows who the hell you are already, so you might as well just put yourself out there.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. And then putting in the extra work Doing. Yeah, like I said, I'm 47. If I need to put in extra work, some of the bitch, I'm 47. I sleep very little. I need sleep. I'm old and I tea a lot at night. That's just how it works. But I'm going to bed at midnight and I'm getting up at five o'clock in the morning so I can go back to work the next day, sit through four hours of class and do eight hours at work after class and then go back and study for another four hours, or is that Put that back to two.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if it's not direct book study in. I got a Wi-Fi pineapple. I'm trying to figure this shit out so I can be more marketable, so I can put in that extra work and figure out how to do a better job before I get into where I'm going.
Speaker 1:And that's the thing, right. It's all about the effort you put in. It's about what you're willing to work for. So, for those that don't know, when I first started out of the Army, I didn't have a job 2017, I went six months without work. They have my mother-in-law, with my wife and five kids. So for all those that are just getting in thinking, oh, it's going to be easy Homie, I had more letters after my name than a damn alphabet. Don't think it's going to be easy. I don't care who you are.
Speaker 1:I spent six to eight months out of work. I finally got a job paying $60,000-some dollars a year. The reason I got a raise and the reason I got a new job was because I was willing to put in the effort and show that I am able and willing to learn, not because I knew the software that I was going to be working on. I was a SIM. Engineer was my second job. I was an engineer, but I showed the ability and willingness to learn. So, regardless of your age, I don't care what it is you can go up to any good, good hiring manager right now. That is looking for people and saying I'm in a boot camp, or I'm doing this, or I'm doing that, or I'm putting all this out there and they will hire you. But we hope so, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:No, I don't believe it does either, and people that look at age as a whole back are fucking themselves. Man, look at the experience that comes with it. How much stuff have you been through as opposed to a 23-year-old just out of college? How many lessons have you learned that that 23-year-old has not?
Speaker 1:And so I learned not to shut down an MSSPSim and reboot it without notifying people.
Speaker 2:Well, it's a technique used by some, not by others.
Speaker 1:I, literally I've done that. So for all those that think you can't make mistakes, I kid you, not working for an MSSP, I shut down our multi-tenant SIM and rebooted it and that shit takes like a half hour to 45 minutes to reboot and come back up. So yeah, that shit has happened. We all make mistakes, but again, it comes down to the willingness to learn the tribal knowledge, the ability to build upon it. Cody, you're right in there in the thick of it. Man, you're going through this, you're showing your ability and your willingness to learn, and that is what is vital.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I mean. So everybody's gonna have all the ad-aboys. You can have all the ad-boys in the world. There's that one all fuck. That everybody's gonna remember and it's your willingness to grow past that and to pick yourself up and show them. Yep, I fucked up, but guess what happened? I'd learned. Yep, what occurred, learning occurred. That's what happened. If you can learn from your mistakes and show your advancement from that, you're gonna freaking rock and roll buddy.
Speaker 1:That is the biggest thing, right when you look at us as humanity. Can you learn from your mistakes or are you gonna let them haunt you? Yeah, I learn. I preach every day, every video. Everything I do is all about learning, all about growing. Whether in this industry or outside of it, it does not matter. Everything that happens is a learning experience. I learned from my kids, I learned from you. I learned from Andrea. I learned from Juanalwa. I learned from Space Tacos you got her name right. I try.
Speaker 1:I learned from Avant. I learned from everybody Because, look, I've been in this industry 15 plus years, going on 20 years. It does not matter how old you are, how young you are or what you're doing, you can learn from everybody. Those with age have wisdom and experience from other industries, other jobs, other capabilities that they bring to the table. If you cannot learn, if you show me that you're not willing to learn, I got no time for you.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I caveat off of that. Oh my God, did I just say caveat. Can you back up? I'm going back in, I do.
Speaker 1:You're getting younger. Now You're getting younger, let's go with it.
Speaker 2:If I say but who? Oh shit, there it is no, no, no.
Speaker 1:If you say captor no captor, I'm off to cut you off. Don't ever say that that'll cut you off. I will kill you from the street.
Speaker 2:No, the captor in the truck, on the freaking dashboard. That's where they are, that's where they sit until I get in and have to protect my fucking eyes, no man. But so to come off of that is willingness to learn, willingness to freaking advance yourself. But here's something that a lot of people right now I'm finding don't have is the ability to have God damn fun.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:If you cannot sit there and have fun in the workplace and I don't care who you are, if you're going to get offended, you know something. Switch the channel, find something else. Don't submit me to fucking HR. I don't give a shit. There's some in HR, I don't care, it's who I am. I'm gonna have fun and I'm gonna try to make jokes. I'm gonna try to turn this learning opportunity. I try every day in class. I'm trying to cut up and I'm trying to freaking, make stuff funny, because when you're laughing you're enjoying it.
Speaker 2:If you're just sitting there watching a fucking lecture with some dude with his arms over the podium. Oh, chapter seven, dash one Say it.
Speaker 1:Amanda knows all about that right now.
Speaker 2:Fuck that. Fuck that. Have fun with it, man. If you're having fun, you're learning. If you're having fun, you're more engaged and you're gonna freaking do better than if you're just fucking sitting there listening like a stump on a log.
Speaker 1:And and, and that's the thing is, if you, if you know how to enjoy yourself, if you know how to make jokes and we do this at work, where Whoops thankfully that was, yeah, where I work now we don't go to time I literally get on my boss's case All the time. Bosses, my bosses, bosses. But but I do, I get on his case all the time. A because it's fun and be because it makes work enjoyable. When you and your boss can, you know, joke with each other and cut up.
Speaker 1:And you know, I got a senior engineer. He's not mine, he belongs to my counterpart, he is, he is my counterparts employee. But he'll show up on video with a sleeveless shirt on and I'm like man, now you got make me look bad. I got to go find a shirt that I can actually wear like. So these things is just all about having fun. It's all about enjoying your job and who you work with, and if you do that, if you cannot Make jokes, if you cannot just have fun, then you're gonna hate your life and I can't live like that. I never could. And so I love everything about when I work, I love everything about who I work with, because we can do that.
Speaker 2:My, there's a time and place for everything there really is.
Speaker 1:you don't get on a client call in a sleeveless shirt.
Speaker 2:Well, you can, it's just not approved.
Speaker 1:I mean I'll get on wearing this, don't get a twist that I will promote the shit out of myself.
Speaker 2:I don't mind so my mind just ship yesterday.
Speaker 1:I don't. So so, alright, for those that don't know, I have a drop ship company. I go through Printful, all my merchandise goes through there, but sometimes it takes a little bit longer. So if you want it, you got to order it about a week in advance. If you're gonna be on the show just saying, sometimes, sometimes more, it really depends. But otherwise, look it's, it's. It is one of those things. Like you just got to have fun with your career. If you're not having fun, you're gonna be miserable. And this goes into the aspect of everything I talk about is, if you hate your job man or woman, it doesn't matter you're gonna take that shit home with you. Which means now, either you're gonna be alone and miserable or you're gonna be married and make your spouse miserable and your kids miserable and everybody else miserable.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah everybody's gonna be miserable around you. Don't take a show. It is one of those things where you have to enjoy what you do and who you work with. I have made it a Mission to always enjoy who I work with, the job it is what it is. And look, if you're looking for sleeveless, I go shirtless on tiktok almost every day.
Speaker 2:Just say have a little decent sir. No, I don't have none.
Speaker 1:I enjoy the dad in the beer belly, and is it keg?
Speaker 2:I can't get it.
Speaker 1:The beer belly and is it keg? A keg is stronger than a six pack. I stand by that.
Speaker 1:That's why it's called a cake throw in a stylish under games and not a six pack throw exactly, exactly, yeah so so I stand by this, but you gotta enjoy what you work, you gotta enjoy everything about it, and so, regardless your age, regardless of how you got there, enjoy it, love it, live it up. Oh, absolutely so, cody. I got a question for you okay we are at. We got 15 minutes. I thought we were yeah, we do. We're not we got time, homie, we're gonna run this on we got as long as you want.
Speaker 2:This is your show remember.
Speaker 1:This is true, this is true. So if you were looking at it from a perspective of age and I'm gonna bring you up solo I'm gonna let you take over to show for a little bit. Holy shit do you think your age has or will have any effect on your schooling or career prospects?
Speaker 2:Schooling prospects? Schooling prospects absolutely not. Schools don't give a shit how old you are. All they want is money, right? So they don't care, they're gonna take your money regardless. It's what you do in that school that makes you. It doesn't matter about your age, it doesn't matter about how much money you got. You can be again a billionaire and have all the money in the world, and to shitty the course. The school's still gonna fucking take you. You can have no money and be working 17 jobs. The school's still gonna take you.
Speaker 2:I Employment I think age does have display wrong in the employment industry, just because people For one thing I don't know I'm not, I'm not a health insurance person, but maybe your HR health insurance risk assessment dude is like that's some of bitches 900 years old and Needs to take a break. I don't know if he can sit at the computer and not get electrocuted. The other side is I mean seriously, but they are gonna look at your age. I really believe that they're gonna look at your age and they're gonna make judgments about you. I've had judges made about me about my age I didn't get the job well, and fabricating Because my age. In fact, I was passed up numerous times because of my age and my experience level. But I'll tell you what I had the passion and I would freaking roll around in the dirt better than anybody, and my Wills were better than half the employees in the goddamn business. So get out there and do what you're passionate about, regardless of what it is and how old you are.
Speaker 1:I Love that. I absolutely love that, because here's the thing and here's where I think ageism started coming into play. So I Will hire anybody. If you're just breaking in junior, mid tier, senior I don't care about your age. If you're breaking in, you want to make money, you want to also do something you love. Right, if I see the ability to learn, if I see you're a senior band that feel 30 years, I don't care how old you are, you're gonna be here, you're gonna make a difference. But with that and With what is going on, I think this is where ageism Really took effect and really made a name. It for itself is the blue-collar industry, because as you get older and your body, your body breaks down, you can no longer was that a beer delivery?
Speaker 1:Was that what?
Speaker 2:a beer delivery.
Speaker 1:No, it was. It was a play cake from my kid. I got a beer down below me.
Speaker 2:I got a whole.
Speaker 1:I got a whole fridge below me. I don't have to get a beer delivery down here, but I do. I think I think blue-collar is where ageism comes into play more often than cybersecurity and IT, because I think in blue-collar they look at the body and look at the, the breakdown of the the human body and Versus and an IT and cyber security. You don't have to worry about that as much Now. You got to worry about medical appointments. Don't get me, don't get it twisted.
Speaker 1:At 36 years old, I have appointments with my Psychologists and my doctors and everything else on a regular basis. Being from the military, my body is broken. So, yes, I deal with that, but I don't think it comes into play as much because you're sitting in a chair your right, maybe a half hour to an hour or whatever, but you're sitting there. You're not gonna get spent as long as, mentally, you're able to do the job now, like that set in different story. But as far as the ability to do the job, if you're continuously learning, if you're getting Certifications, if you're furthering your education, if you're sitting here and putting up articles like yo, I just read this and this is the hot shit.
Speaker 1:Y'all need to look at this. I'm looking at you and I'm going home and you, please, teach me, please. I'm 37 years old. Well, the fucking teach me. Let me know what I need to do. Like absolutely. That's how I look at it, and there's a lot more people coming out with that mindset. Of age doesn't matter, but I see it more in IT and cyber versus other industries right, your rights, the I fucking welding fabrication man, it will take it out of you.
Speaker 2:But you also have to realize I think it's in both industries that you have the old-timers that are holding on to the secrets, yes, and they will not give them up because they're afraid You're gonna take their job.
Speaker 1:That's the one I could be having.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, I see that even in my industry with directors and VPs and and and C level execs. People are so afraid you're gonna take their position and their money and what they're going for. They won't train you, they won't teach you, they won't do this. That in the third. But here's my caveat to that and I'm gonna give you a good one. This is why your network is so important, because when you network, when you actually and people hate that hate to do it but if you make friends with your boss and their boss then when they move on or they move up guess what they're doing they're bringing you up with them. They're not afraid to give you that knowledge, you're not afraid to help you along because they're looking to move up. So if they're gonna move up, they're gonna take the next person in line. That's like you know. I know this person. They're good people. They could do their job, they can do their shit. They're coming up with me and so they're gonna bring them up with them now on that end.
Speaker 2:You've got to get those companies. So I challenge right now, I challenge everybody that's listening and anybody at this point Go on the fucking, indeed, go on to these job search boards. Find me an entry level job that requires less. Then a freaking bachelor's degree in three years of experience. Yeah, good luck. Because I swear to God, everything I'm looking at as minimum frigging requirements a bachelor's degree and a minimum three years of experience of dealing with Penetration, testing, dealing with IT, health desk. Three years of experience in whatever field you're going into, plus probably other you know for other certifications. So I do.
Speaker 2:Certifications are fucking expensive if I wasn't in this course that. So I get four tokens for fucking certifications. One of them I have to take, a security plus. Okay, that's just something I have to take in order for the course. Doesn't matter if I pass or fail. Okay, if I fail it, I can take whatever courses off. Three tow three certificates, but they will pay for three different tests in divergence in this course For you to get certified for certification tests. I already knocked out sec. Plus, I'm taking Fucking pentest in less than a month. Yeah, a couple weeks. And what happens if I fail it? I still got two left, I can retake it. I can go back to fucking cloud, I can go to networking, I can go to Linux, I can go wherever I want within six months of graduating.
Speaker 1:Let's go, dude and that's huge, and I'm gonna get into Jack's comment, our question here in a second. Which, fyi, as you would love to donate to the cause Please? There are super tests that are available Also on all my videos.
Speaker 1:You can tip and you can do a lot of fun shit and I'm sure now, which I don't have anything other than thank you, and I will announce the fact that you're a subscriber in every episode. But other than that, look when you're looking at you. Test and testing. Here's the biggest thing. People let failure bother them. As someone who has been in the field for 15 plus going on 20 plus years, I have failed my CCNA three times. I just recently failed a TANIUM certification. I have failed Microsoft certifications. Failure is not the end. I am now a practice manager, I now have management and I am now having people under me, and I have failed certifications. I have failed in my career field. I have failed in a lot of things. Just because you failed something, take off that ED. Fail means first attempt in learning.
Speaker 1:You are able to accomplish it. You are able to do it. It just takes a little bit more effort, like I said you see an age with me four tries TANIUM. I'll study it some more and get it on my second try when I decide to reschedule it.
Speaker 2:This is where the ageism comes into play. You have it with age comes failure. How many things have you failed in as a 23 year old when you're able to kick your freaking heels in and keep going? No man, when I was 23 and I failed in something, it hit me hard. I'm 47. I failed in something. I'm like, well, going to work tomorrow, but I'm going to do it again. I found it winning the lottery. Yeah, fuck off, I'm fucking doing it. Yeah, don't fucking get it. Who gives a shit? It's the dude in the locker room. When you get down to the gym and he's sitting there naked doing the cat and Morgan stance, wiping his junk and talking to you, you're like, well, I failed. That fucking locker room etiquette Got to go. You just fucking get dressed. You move out, change the fucking channel. Who gives a shit? What just happened? Move on and fucking go on with your life and improve yourself. Now you don't take as long in the fucking shower.
Speaker 1:All right, I got two questions here and I'm going to touch on Andrea's here in a second, but the first one comes from Jack, because it came from a lot earlier. Do you feel that the bootcamp you're taking now is preparing you well for a pen testing job, because, as we all know, pen testing is very heavy in report writing.
Speaker 2:Is it?
Speaker 1:actually helping you with that.
Speaker 2:I can't say yes or no at this point. I'm in the fucking first week. We have just finished the first week and this first week of pen testing course has been a short week because of the fucking holiday. We honestly did get started until Wednesday. I can't say that this pen test bootcamp has improved me at all. I know how to log into GNS3. I got a VPN set up and I got some machines I can hack this weekend. The course provides you a weekend, 24 hours, seven days a week. You can log into this record VPN and go attack machines, or you can just do it during the week while you're at school. So it's an extra time If the course provides you with that. Awesome, because I'm not sleeping tonight, I'm telling you what I'm going to get about 37 fucking 5 hour energies and I don't know another seven or eight pack of beer and I'm going to go hack some shit and learn how to do it. I haven't busted into my first machine yet, but I'll be goddamned if I don't fucking want to.
Speaker 1:I will say this when you do it, let me know, because I love seeing people's successes, so I want to see on LinkedIn, on Instagram, whatever you're on. I want to know when it happens, because I am, a going to promote the shit out of it and, b I want to congratulate you because that is something that when you pound your first box, it stills your beating heart. You're just looking at it going oh yes.
Speaker 2:I tried so many things just in this frigging afternoon. Once we got access to it I was like, okay, do this, do this fail, goddammit. Do this, do this fail, fuck. Do this? Do this? Son of a bitch? I got to go back to work, and so you go back to work and go do your shit. Work is calling dammit. Yeah, you got to touch this beat by your door and you're like goddammit. And then you have a man in the country report writing.
Speaker 2:This thing, the course that I'm in right now, or Jack, this course that I am right now, report writing is huge. So we have some PSLs and basically security labs, penetration security labs. We go hack boxes I mean virtual network on GNS3, we go hack these things and there has to. I haven't counted them, honestly, but there is fucking about a dozen of them, different fucking boxes to go hack and to go in and get your stuff and try to find these flags and try to find these vulnerabilities and try to find all these things and you write a report on each one that you do.
Speaker 2:This is part of the course content. It's not just that. Do you want to? No, it's a part of the course content. What did you find in this network? What did you find per machine? Are you right? It could be a 15 page report and we just got this discussion. We got a little template today. They downloaded them and we got examples of what stuff should look like, what really good ones are and what marginal ones are. You know what to include, what not to include, and again, it's the course content.
Speaker 2:I can't tell you, man, if you go into XYZ fucking Pintest course, you're going to get this. I can't say that you're going to go into anything and get this. You're not going to know until you get into it and you've already paid the money, unfortunately. What I am going to say is do your research and if you need help with reports, the more I go into it. Dude, hit me up on LinkedIn, man, I'll give you what I know. I will help anybody in this chat or anybody after it reads this shit. I'll give them anything I got that I've learned and my lessons learned. I'll give it to you. I don't give a shit. Compgn can fucking flag me. Fuck you guys. I don't care.
Speaker 1:And that's the biggest thing. A and this is one of the reasons I wanted you on here, cody, is because I know you're willing to share your information. I know you're willing to go to work for people, and one of the biggest things to me is you are willing to put that information out there. Pintesting, as everybody knows or should know. Look, everybody looks at pentesting and hacking as always hot and sexy and everybody should do it. No, no, no. The majority of your job is report writing and growing on hack the box.
Speaker 1:It's like a fucking police officer.
Speaker 2:Cops spend the majority of their time fucking writing reports. Everybody's like oh, they're always writing tickets, oh, they're pulling me over. No, motherfucker, 80% of that time is writing reports.
Speaker 1:That's a lot of your jobs that seem sexy are report writing. They don't see the back end, and so that is a huge problem. Is everybody's like, oh, I'm going to get into this? Then they get into it and they're like I'm bored, oh, I need to go work somewhere else, I need to go do something like this. And so it's a very important topic to talk about because of that fact of report writing and soft skills and things like that are so important, because here's the other part of pen testing that people don't understand If you cannot explain to a client how to secure their systems from the shit you did, you are worthless and it's not only worthless.
Speaker 2:And it's not just explaining to them, it's explaining to them in their language. Yes, you have to translate that, and sometimes it's downgrading your language. It's marine.
Speaker 1:It is marine level writing you need to do Right now to a cran eater.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. But, buddy, I'll tell you what If you don't like report writing, if you're in a pen test role I've never been in one, but I believe there's a team that's called a red team, ah, which means there's more than one. Anyway, there might be a dude that's really good at fucking report writing and maybe that's all he does. So don't get on that cat for just fucking sitting back and watching you guys do the work and getting a report. This is like the breakfast club. The dude wrote the report for the breakfast club and didn't do much. He was a geek. But, man, that last report was really good, and Molly Ringwald and the freaking Stoner dude they can walk off.
Speaker 1:Sweden's Elf and Amanda says it here See, I'll do the thing. Talk to a client if someone else writes the report. Exactly, Report writing. This is why I got into management. Too many people were asking me to write reports and emails and everything else. Screw that, I'm just going to go motivate people. I'm out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nobody likes report writing buddy, nobody likes it.
Speaker 1:You can't say nobody. There are people out there that love it. They absolutely love it. It isn't me, but there are people.
Speaker 2:But I do have.
Speaker 1:So we are at the top of the hour, I do have to get Andrea's question up here.
Speaker 2:Come on, Andrea, what you got.
Speaker 1:So what is your take on reverse ageism? And I think what she needs is they want people that are older with experience, versus those younger coming out of college. So, in today's workforce, what's your view on this?
Speaker 2:All right. So, coming into, young, coming in, I'm 23 and I got all the heat. What you need to provide to your employer or the guy you want to work with, I say guy, the company you want to work with, express that learning initiative. And I'm not just talking about I want to learn. I am good at learning. Blah, blah, beep, boop, boop. Who gives a fucking robot? No, show me something. If you're 20 fucking years old and you want to prove to the employer that you're going to learn, show that son of a bitch what you have done. Show him that you've made rubber ducky, that every time you click the right mouse button it plays fucking the Dukes of Hazard theme.
Speaker 1:That would be great. You know something? I got a rubber duck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't do that, absolutely, man. Yeah, show them that you made a phishing email, that every time somebody clicks on the unsubscribe button, that takes you to the fucking link that clicks all your fucking data.
Speaker 1:It's making you to a porn site. Don't lie. That's what it's making you to. It's making you to a porn site and probably the porn you never want to see Grandma'sLoveBudcom.
Speaker 2:But no, seriously, buddy, Andrea, it's fucking. Show them what you can do, Because I tell you what, if I saw a 20-year-old coming into my shop, I don't want to fucking welding fabrication shop with the CNC machine shop attached to it. I hire fucking these people. Well, I don't hire them because right now we're not looking to hire. Anyway, I've seen these people come through.
Speaker 2:But show me what you've done. If you're a button pusher, I can get, if I can train monkey to fucking do that and you're asking for fucking $30 an hour. I can get a trained monkey to do it for less, Because it don't take much of button push. But if you could show me that you've learned G&N code to fucking start programming your own shit, if you can show me the graphics, if you can show me your freaking 3D CAD cam online and do it, Because that's going to make you stand out, that's going to make you head shoulders Even above the 35-year-old, 40-year-old. That's been doing it for 40 years over time. But it's going to fucking take so much more to fucking. The employer is going to look at that way more than you just coming in and saying I went through a course in college.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to be able to get it. Don't get it. That's a huge thing, right? So when I look at reverse ageism, and when I think about it, I look at this and I'm all Logan, I'm trying to fucking preach buddy and I'm sorry comments and I think about it in such a way that if you're willing to put in the work, if you're willing to put in the effort, let me explain. Yeah, hit it. At 14 years old I was getting hit by punters on AOL. What?
Speaker 2:the fuck are you talking about? I didn't understand what, that was Okay. I don't understand what it is now.
Speaker 1:It was a denial service that kicked you off your dial-up. Oh okay, that's what it was, those that understood the wee, wee ooh boo boo boo, boo boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo boo boo, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I just used the cap on me, yeah so. So I got hit with a punter that's what it was called at the time on AmeriCorps Online. My buddy used to do it to me all the time on one of the drop kick-ups, but it was a denial service that kicked you off the Internet. I should have done more research than I did not. I knew IT right I don't remember the year so I did all this and then I got into IT. I fixed computers, I knew operating systems, I knew networking, I knew all this other stuff. I didn't know cybersecurity. I didn't break into my. I didn't do anything in terms of cybersecurity until I broke into my first wireless network Back in 2005, maybe, so I couldn't use cybersecurity until 2022.
Speaker 1:So yes, you're going. For me it was uh, what was it? It was B G N I think we're out or B, g and A For wireless networks. Wep was still the primary security mechanism. I broke into that and then I broke into a hospital. I didn't do nothing, I literally just pulled down their card and was like oh shit, I can get to your network yeah fuck.
Speaker 2:What did I just?
Speaker 1:do Right. What do I do with this? Now I can break in. The first time I fired up a Wi-Fi pineapple I frankly pulled in fucking networks.
Speaker 2:I was not expecting. I'm like, oh zipline. Oh here's all these fucking internet providers, oh here's all these people like the networks around me. I'm like son of a bitch. I got to find the right IP and I was trying to break into a box that I did on Voltub to try to freaking crack into and I'm like shit, which IP address myself post to break into? I need to stop until I find out what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:And that was the thing. I then didn't know exactly what I was doing. I knew, but I didn't know. I didn't look up the laws, I didn't understand what was exactly going on. I just knew if I connected to it. After the fact I was probably getting in trouble.
Speaker 2:So I didn't want to do that.
Speaker 1:I was like I cracked it, I'm going to let you go, yeah. At the same time, I did my research. I understood, I began to understand more about the situation and about cybersecurity. Cybersecurity is so vast a field that I didn't get into the blue team side until I went into the army, until they said, hey, we're going to teach you all this offensive shit, but it's so you can understand the vlogs and the things that you're looking at and the things that you should be investigating and all this other stuff. Without that, I would never understood how to not get caught.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. I think that that is an important aspect of your baseline. You don't, if you want to go into red team and you want to start penetration testing, and I think if you want to start going in and cracking people, you have to understand the defenses, but you also have to understand okay, I'm going to bring out the term GRC, and the GRC thing has all of a sudden popped up in my life. I was a fucking supply guy man. I did fucking regulations, I did hazmat, I did physical security. I did fucking risk assessments in Afghanistan.
Speaker 2:I had 3,000 soldiers underneath me, 17 different units that I had to go out with a fucking clipboard for each unit and assess the risk assessment as a fucking E6, and fucking GRC, what do you got? Come on, buddy, what you got? I had fucking 3,000 soldiers, 17 units, the physical security, driver security, all the fucking things. What could GRC throw at me? Bring it, I got it. And this is another thing with ageism is a resume won't show that experience unless you specifically put it in there, and that's the big thing.
Speaker 1:So here's the thing, cody, and once again I'm going to send you solo, because I want you to explain to everybody. I want you to give your words of wisdom, I want you to give your advice to all those breaking in, trying to break in, or even veterans who think they know their shit but really don't know their shit. I want you to break down as much as possible your words of advice for everybody in, or trying to get in, to cybersecurity.
Speaker 2:Absolutely All right, guys. You don't know shit. You never will. You will all. If you think you know it, you don't fucking. There's always room to improve. There's always room to fucking learn. Get in there, learn it, adapt, learn it again, think before you speak. Go back and learn it again and fucking continue on.
Speaker 2:Man, if you're a military veteran, you think you've been there and done that shit. Man, there's always somebody that's bigger, better, faster, stronger than you. There's always someone out there that is that $6 million man. Fuck that guy. You're never going to beat him, but you know what you can do. You work towards it. You can get towards that and you can work towards beating them. And even though you're never going to beat him, you can work towards it. And the fucking more that you work towards bettering yourself through education and continuous fucking learning, then you're only doing credit to yourself. Man, if you sit there and think that you've got everything, you're laying on a fucking barcalaureate with blanking over your legs and you just fucking writing it. You're hurting yourself. Somebody's going to take your fucking job and all of a sudden you're going to be in the middle of a movie begging for Biden to fucking forgive your fucking students. It's what it is.
Speaker 1:Hey, hey, I want my student loans forgiven because I'm too lazy to pay back.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, jesus, fucking. Don't eat the meatballs and forgive your student loans. That's what it is, buddy.
Speaker 1:I wish it worked that way. I really do, but it don't. And to be real and to be honest look, I want to be honest with everything you said. You have a chance to either earn it and work for it and be worth something, or to be lazy, sit back and blame everybody.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And at this point, those are your options. You can either go out there, earn everything you get and deserve it, or you can sit back and wait for a handout. Me personally, and I know for a fact that all of my warriors they're not looking for a handout, they're earning it. They're putting in the work to educate themselves. They're putting in the work to get on LinkedIn. They're putting in the work to do everything Don't get it man, why I have my community?
Speaker 1:because no one can do it. But you Effort and it is correct. Only you can make the decisions of how your life is going to go. Nobody else, no one, can dictate what you're going to do in life. But you, you're either going to work for it and earn it or guess what? No one is going to hire you. No one is going to actually look at you and be like, oh yeah, they're worth something, they deserve it.
Speaker 2:Go through your first interview and be asked how to negotiate a network when you get pushed into the snot locker. You're going to fucking change your attitude and try to fucking actually learn what you're doing.
Speaker 1:I have gotten turned down from so many jobs because I didn't know what I was doing. When I was getting out of the military I applied to Cisco Talos. They brought me in. Talos is one of the most respected organizations in the United States. Maybe in the world Said hey, do this. No, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Bet you're not hotter. I don't disagree. You're right, I shouldn't be. I shouldn't be working there. I didn't know what I was doing at the time. No, fuck you, you should be working there.
Speaker 2:No, you should be working there. And the thing that they didn't fucking see is the fucking training that they could have provided you. If they would have provided you with fucking training and to mold you into the position that they wanted you to be in, they would have ROI faster off a year skill set if they had trained you than if they had reached training another person.
Speaker 1:It was a senior position. I couldn't, I couldn't bat against it.
Speaker 2:Then what?
Speaker 1:For me it did. For me I understood, I understand where you're coming from, I understand your point of view, but for me, at a senior position, a senior role of some, of that needs to hit the ground running. I could not do that at that time. So for me, I understood mentally of like you're right, the questions they asked, the shit they felt they dealt with on a daily basis. I could not hit the ground running for them, I could not do what they required. So I respect the fact and this is the thing is, you have to respect what the company is doing and what they're trying to do and where they're going from it. And you are going to apply for a position and they say we want a junior or we want a mid tier, and you go in there and say, hey, I've done all this, I have this experience. And I'm talking labs, I'm talking personal experience, not enterprise experience, personal experience. This is what I've done. I am going to look at it and I'm going to bring you in Now if you tell me oh, I went through and I got a degree in a certification.
Speaker 1:Okay, so what have you done since? Not shit, okay. Then why the fuck do I care? Why do I care? Because guess what? I've got those certifications. I know what they teach and I know what they bring to the table. I've got a degree in computer information systems. I know networking. What can you tell me that's gonna prove you have the ability to keep learning and grow and understanding. I don't give a damn, I care what you've done to prove yourself. And that's LinkedIn, that's Andrea, that's what matters.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Why do I hire you?
Speaker 2:Well, okay so it's not only fucking LinkedIn. Okay, you have to look at. Yeah, okay so Twitter, fucking get the that damn fucking Instagram. Okay so my Instagram. I don't post shit about digital fucking security or cybersecurity or any fucking thing. What's Instagram to me? It's me. That's what Instagram is. Do I go out and go shoot? I'm not gonna go out and do it anymore. I'm not gonna go out and do it anymore.
Speaker 2:Exactly what LinkedIn is. That's my professional resume. Yes, but your professional resume on LinkedIn needs to have the jocularity of you. When a company comes in to fucking hire you, they're not hiring your skillset only, they're hiring you. And if you have a fucking robotic, fucking beep, beep, boop, boop, this is all I do all fucking day. This is my life. Man, I'll tell you what, if I had somebody that had some dogs, or somebody that had cats, or somebody that showed a goddamn boat, or skiing, or snowboarding, snow shoeing or doing, the worst fucking thing I think they could ever do is running, fuck marathons. Anyway, I just showed them doing that. They're a fucking human being.
Speaker 1:They're a goddamn human being. That's the biggest thing, it'd be a human, don't be a robot.
Speaker 2:You have Absolutely.
Speaker 1:This is why I do this show, because here's the thing You're gonna put this out to somebody, you're gonna put it on your resume, you're gonna put it on your LinkedIn profile, you're gonna put it on Twitter. You're gonna put it all these other places. You are all human. For anybody who does not see that, for anybody who doesn't realize that, guess what, they're not worth your time.
Speaker 1:Me personally, I will hire anybody as soon as I get jobs if they're willing to put themselves out there and be human. Oh, I gotta be in a suit and tie and be professional and I gotta do all these things. No, I don't give a fuck about that. I give a fuck and I give a damn about who you are as a human being. What's your family? Do you have dogs? What are your hobbies? Absolutely, outside of cybersecurity. Because, guess what? If you wanna make it in this industry, if you wanna make it in this world, you have to have something about you other than your job, absolutely. If you do not, you are gonna get burned out and you're gonna be worthless to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you gotta do a walk with me about that shit, because, holy fuck, it's bad If you don't. If you're just a fucking robot, okay. So I've been going through fucking Mr Robot. This is how I spend my fucking personal time. Before bed, I watch an episode of this and I go that motherfucker. Okay. So there's some serious twists and turns in that show. I don't you ever watch that? Yeah, you have, but, dude, just having an ability to relax and decompress and have something else to talk about other than the business, you're gonna go fucking way farther in my world than you will if you know more about it.
Speaker 2:And something else is.
Speaker 1:You understand more about humanity. And here's the thing in cybersecurity, you gotta understand how businesses think. Businesses are about money. Businesses are about making business. Business is all about enablement. How can I, as a cybersecurity professional, secure you and make you money? That's what matters. So, look, I get it. And I love OG Shaba wrong. So on Twitch said no job for me. Look, I don't even know who you are. Homie, I love you for being here, but at the end of the day, look, get a hobby outside of cybersecurity. Get off the computer, get off of your phone, get off of everything. Get a hobby, get something outside of cybersecurity and IT, solely because that will alleviate your mind and allow you to perform better. I'm not saying you shouldn't do hack the box. I'm not saying you shouldn't do try hack me. I'm not saying you should learn.
Speaker 2:Oh, get out there and do it After hours.
Speaker 1:do it all, but find your time to do something outside of this industry, because it opens up your mind to other businesses and the realms of businesses that you will interact with on a daily basis.
Speaker 2:So have you ever tried Bandit?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, that thing is fucking frustrating, I have to admit anyways, cody, I loved having you here.
Speaker 1:It's been an amazing talk. We are well over top of the hour. Who gives a shit? Do me a favor, take care, get a hold of me, everybody here. Get a hold of me on LinkedIn Once again. I do have subscriptions on YouTube. Now I also have them on TikTok, if you wanna support me in the descriptions all the way you can support me. You wanna follow Cody? All of his information is in the description of the YouTube video.
Speaker 2:Anything that he wants to ask, fucking ask me.
Speaker 1:Anything that he wants to ask me, fucking send it.
Speaker 2:I will send you whatever.
Speaker 1:I have.
Speaker 2:Do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'll send you whatever I got. I love you all. Take care, have a good one and, as always, I'll see you next week on another amazing episode of Security Happy Hour.
Speaker 2:Hell yeah, buddy, I'll see you next time.